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National Journal's Insider Interviews

On Freezing Tax Expenditures

Monday, February 8, 2010

By John Maggs  

Len Burman

Public affairs professor at Syracuse University

Economy expert and Syracuse University professor Len Burman proposed in the Washington Post last week an alternative to the modest savings from President Obama's spending freeze -- a freeze in some "tax expenditures," those exemptions in the tax code for different groups that work effectively like spending programs for special interests.

The article raised a few questions that Burman answered in an interview with National Journal via e-mail. The complete exchange follows after the jump, and read more on the discussion at NationalJournal.com's Economy Expert Blog.

NJ: Say a bit more about tax expenditures and how they might be viewed by the public. You seem to suggest that the public might view reductions in these as less of a tax increase than, say, an adjustment in brackets.

Burman: Tax expenditures really are spending programs clothed as tax cuts. For example, John McCain proposed to give families $5,000 in refundable tax credits to pay for health insurance. The only difference between these credits and a voucher is that the credits would be disbursed by the IRS, whereas a health insurance voucher would presumably be issued by an agency of the Department of Health and Human Services. So why should the credit be considered a tax cut while the voucher is considered a spending program?

The confusion is more than semantic. During the campaign, then-candidate Obama accused Senator McCain of proposing to "tax you health insurance" because he would have financed the cost of the new credit by eliminating the current tax break for employer-sponsored health insurance. In fact, McCain was proposing to eliminate a tax expenditure that almost all health analysts believe to be inefficient and poorly targeted with a much more progressive and more efficient alternative. (McCain's health proposals had other shortcomings, but the credit was definitely a step up from the tax exclusion.) I suppose the Obama camp took some perverse pleasure in slamming McCain for "tax-and-spend" policies, but it didn't elevate the public debate.

NJ: What you propose -- and that's clear from your reference to 1986 -- is effectively comprehensive tax reform, with the great degree of political trade-offs required. But the idea of a freeze, which implies a first step, something to do to stop things from getting worse, seems like a relatively small benefit for the political will that will be needed. The 1986 reform would surely never have succeeded without its dramatic cut in income tax rates, paid for with big tax increases for some expenditures. If the political cost is comparable, why only a freeze?

Burman: Tax reform is never easy, but our federal finances are in a very precarious state. Unlike the 1986 tax reform, which was explicitly designed to be revenue-neutral, the next one should be intended to raise enough revenue to stabilize federal finances. Cutting tax expenditures is a much better way to do this than raising marginal tax rates since the former tends to improve economic efficiency by reducing economic distortions -- for example, among different kinds of investments -- while the latter increases the economic cost of taxation.

NJ: Does it make sense to target expenditures, a large share of which are the big subsidy for home ownership? Would you concede that any cut to these expenditures is off the table until housing recovers significantly?

Burman: The mortgage interest deduction is utterly irrational a policy since it encourages leverage (we can see how well that works) and bids up the price of housing. The majority of households that do not itemize deductions get not benefit from it. It would be at the top of most economists' hit list for reform, but I agree that significant changes are probably politically impossible now. (Note also that my proposal would not start to take effect until 2013.)

While the mortgage interest deduction is the second biggest tax expenditure, it is only about 10 percent of the total in 2011. Here are the 12 largest tax expenditures, as calculated by the Treasury Department for the FY2011 budget.

NJ: How do you imagine the process for selecting expenditures to cut might work? A commission? Should the idea be spread the pain across incomes, or hew to Obama's approach on doing nothing to affect the middle class?

Burman: A commission is a recipe for inaction. The president should be required to submit to Congress a budget that includes revisions to tax expenditures to meet the overall cap. In my proposal, the cap would not take effect until 2013, which would reduce the chance that it would stifle a nascent recovery. The delayed start would give Congress and the president time to hear from a tax reform panel charged with limiting tax expenditures and promoting fairness, simplicity, and economic growth. The congressional budget rules should be revised so that the budget process included a cap on overall tax expenditures. It would be up to the House Ways and Means Committee and Senate Finance Committee to propose tax changes to meet the cap, and the two legislative bodies would reconcile differences subject to the cap.

One intriguing possibility would be to combine this with a proposal by University of Virginia law professor George Yin to subject all tax expenditures to annual reauthorization. Professor Yin's theory is that sunsetting tax expenditures would convert them from virtual entitlements (like Social Security) into the equivalent of discretionary spending, subject to annual review and scrutiny.

How to choose what to cut? Presidents for as long as I can remember have explained proposed spending cuts by saying that some programs were ineffective, some were duplicative of other programs, and some were obsolete. Ineffective programs needed to be reformed so they could meet their objectives or eliminated. The other two categories clearly also deserve the axe. The same criteria should be applies to tax expenditures. Some are great and should be continued or even expanded, but many are inefficient or even counter-productive. They should be reformed or eliminated.

Just as it would make no sense to preserve a spending program because some middle-class family should benefit, the president's promise to spare middle-class families from tax increases shouldn't apply here. These are spending programs in disguise. We should remove the veil and then subject them to the same hard-headed scrutiny that the president has promised for direct spending programs.

NJ: How do you cap an expenditure? Presumably some estimate is made of how much the rules would have to be adjusted to keep the revenue constant. Isn't this a guess that will have to be adjusted later?

Burman: Budgeting is always a guess. The Joint Committee on Taxation estimates the size of all tax expenditures and can easily estimate how that total would change under various budget proposals and help Congress put together a package that meets the cap. (Treasury would do the same for the administration's budget.) This is no more (or less) difficult than putting together a tax bill designed to meet a particular price tag.

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Responded on July 9, 2010 5:28 PM

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During the campaign, then-candidate Obama accused Senator McCain of proposing to "tax you health insurance" because he would have financed the cost of the new credit by eliminating the current tax break for employer-sponsored health insurance. In fact, McCain was proposing to eliminate a tax expenditure that almost all health analysts believe to be inefficient and poorly targeted with a much more progressive and more efficient alternative.

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Responded on July 12, 2010 12:25 PM

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Responded on July 16, 2010 1:39 PM

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The health insurance vouchers are a great investment by using 'tax credits' to pay for spending programs, but maybe not a great business deal. Also, whether or not these tax expenditures vouchers cover workholding taxes and other areas of tax exposure for these vouchers is a question itself. Brandon | B.S. Notre Dame '04

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Responded on September 3, 2010 4:40 PM

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I think we need to control our spending and tax the American citizen less so they can have more money in their pockets. You have to remember that the government is for the people.

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Responded on September 5, 2010 10:24 AM

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In these doubtful financial times I am searching for a indication of hope. Maybe the goverment will help out the American citizens like they did with the banking companies.

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Responded on September 6, 2010 9:13 PM

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We need some tax help for sure. What we really need is leaders that dont lie and mislead us and spend money without cause.

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Responded on September 9, 2010 3:31 PM

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We all need a tax break I think. I think this would help everyone and hopefully make this country stronger. I love America and I cant wait for this country to come back.

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Responded on September 15, 2010 3:39 PM

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Responded on September 23, 2010 10:57 PM

Jane Terence

I'm afraid President Obama mislead us in more ways than one when he was a candidate. McCain's health plan to pay health with your own taxes instead of circumventing it with some obsolete and inefficient tax break was indeed a much more rational approach. Unfortunately, we didn't realize that back then.

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Responded on September 28, 2010 3:57 PM

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We need some relief in the tax department. Why did we every leave Europe in the first place. This is really not cool. I work for a Seo company as a contractor and I get my butt taxed. Hopefully we can really get a break.

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Responded on October 26, 2010 9:27 PM

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There is a lot of changes that need to be made. I am not sure what they are trying to do. The taxes are way to high and need to be dropped.

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Responded on October 27, 2010 3:29 AM

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Yeah...this tax storm coming our way doesn't look to good.  I just heard on a National radio show today that the government is wanting to take away the tax writeoffs for our mortgage interest.  So for all of us home owners out there we will get a big fat tax increase...it's not like they are taking 40% plus in tax already.  So now where's the incentive to own a home? learn self defense

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 I agree about taxes. This should be very interesting with the elections coming up. Although it seems like one of the main issues is jobs. BoilX

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Responded on October 29, 2010 6:02 AM

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Responded on October 29, 2010 12:37 PM

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I agree with makeyourownbeats, freezing tax expenditure like this will only be a temporary fix, setting the country up for another fall a few years down the line

Responded on October 29, 2010 12:42 PM

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Responded on October 29, 2010 5:27 PM

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This blog post is excellent, probably because of how well the subject was developped. I like some of the comments too though I would prefer we all stay on the suject in order add value to the subject!
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Responded on October 30, 2010 9:13 AM

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How to choose what to cut? Presidents for as long as I can remember have explained proposed spending cuts by saying that some programs were ineffective, some were duplicative of other programs, and some were obsolete. Ineffective programs needed to be reformed so they could meet their objectives or eliminated. limo
 

Responded on October 30, 2010 3:15 PM

Josh Blue

I agree with Babmly. But I think that it is only recently that the President reformed ineffective programs in order to balance the budget. This sure did not happen with bush. 

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Responded on October 30, 2010 3:17 PM

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 Now that I think about it. Could anyone bring up Bush's programs that he has cutted? 

 

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Responded on October 30, 2010 4:59 PM

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i aslo feel that we need a tax reform, but i can not completely agree with what is proposed here.

certain deductions do not seem reasonable to me, but at least we are informed about whats going on!

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Responded on October 30, 2010 5:03 PM

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Responded on October 31, 2010 6:44 AM

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There are a lot of changes to be made, my dears!
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Great interview and some really interesting questions but it seems like he is between a rock and a hard place since none of the tax cuts here will make him very popular!

Responded on October 31, 2010 2:06 PM

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I hope we have leadership that isn't afraid to cut expenditures like this. It's getting a little bit out of control. penny stock to watch

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Shelly Simmons

 Thank you for your post.  It is so difficult for the American people to discern the truth when so many terms are used to describe the same things.  I hope they do treat the American citizens as kindly as have the banks and lending institutions.  Many people have resorted to using quick phone loans to make ends meet.

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Responded on November 3, 2010 11:55 PM

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 Really great post, and one I think some of the powers that be could stand to read over a few times :) Simone

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 Now that the election is over it will be interesting to see what our government can do to control spending, but also boost the economy. Acnezine

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The whole debate about carbon emissions will drag on for years as companies make more and more excuses as to why they should not clean up their act. Unless you make these taxes large enough companies will flout the regualtions and be happy to pay for what to them will be paltry tax levels. You'll know you are getting the taxes right when you hear the sharholders moaning and groaning about their reduced dividends due to massive taxes on emmissions. These companies need to sort out their debt management and then things will change.

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Responded on November 5, 2010 9:07 AM

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Thanks for this wonderful article, very interesting topic..Election is over, a challenge for the elected officials on how to cut expenditures and make this country strong..

 

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Thanks for this informative posts.  Taxes are killing us all.  At least if I can't stay financially fit I can still look after my body and find a rich hubby.  Joking.

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What Burman said about tax expenditure is true. It makes sense. I hope his opinion will help to bring bright future to our nation's seedbox.

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I like the fact that Burman is this transparent. People can learn a lot from him. 

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Responded on November 7, 2010 7:38 AM

Jenny Black

 This is exactly why I like the National Journal. Very apt questions and a good interview.

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Responded on November 7, 2010 11:48 AM

Gordon

Choosing what to cut will always propose a problem, especially as folk march out sad case stories of those hurt by tough choices.  Selling portable generators with my company, we have had to make very hard choices with the recent downturn, and it is heartbreaking.  Hopefully austerity will bring things back and we can return to a position that will allow us to grow again and reemploy.

Responded on November 7, 2010 12:44 PM

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Responded on November 8, 2010 12:29 AM

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With the economy in the shape it's in and Obama raising our national deficit to unreal levels, I believe they will have to raise everyones taxes to just keep up.  Solution = Government stop spending and America needs to start producing again.  Let's get back to our roots.  thinning hair remedy

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You can't escape death and taxes so why don't we just all pay the same percentage of tax? I think that would help us all.

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Personally, I don't think we should be subsidizing the mortgage industry. As you said, it only encourages more reckless use of leverage and higher prices. Then again, maybe its an indirect way of giving more tax money via property taxes to the cities. We need to start producing again, not playing money games.

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Responded on November 15, 2010 4:27 PM

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Responded on November 16, 2010 1:14 PM

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Responded on November 17, 2010 2:36 PM

ane

Longer, slightly off the wall response: As a blackboard exercise, here we square the circle. For now, suppose you think the R & E credit is good policy. That must mean you believe that what constitutes an incentive to the efforts of R & E. If so, then you should want a degree of "permanence" in the R & E credit to implement the incentive. If I'm thinking of a new R & D lab, which is more likely that R & E credit account if it seems permanent (by which I mean really persistent).

On the other hand, want to force the credit monitoring and review. So you may be tempted to make the sun every five years. But then you really only provided 2.5 years of "stay" on average over the life of 5 years (since it only has 4 years of persistence after one year, etc.).

So what you really want, at least on a blackboard, is a policy which adopts the R & E credit for the next five years, and then is renewed once a year to five years' notice. (Remember, I said that this was possible.)

So here are committed to: Make it mandatory for the first ...

Read More

Longer, slightly off the wall response: As a blackboard exercise, here we square the circle. For now, suppose you think the R & E credit is good policy. That must mean you believe that what constitutes an incentive to the efforts of R & E. If so, then you should want a degree of "permanence" in the R & E credit to implement the incentive. If I'm thinking of a new R & D lab, which is more likely that R & E credit account if it seems permanent (by which I mean really persistent).

On the other hand, want to force the credit monitoring and review. So you may be tempted to make the sun every five years. But then you really only provided 2.5 years of "stay" on average over the life of 5 years (since it only has 4 years of persistence after one year, etc.).

So what you really want, at least on a blackboard, is a policy which adopts the R & E credit for the next five years, and then is renewed once a year to five years' notice. (Remember, I said that this was possible.)

So here are committed to: Make it mandatory for the first five years and then give it to those who appropriate each year thereafter. But with the requirement that must be decided five years earlier.
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Responded on November 18, 2010 9:31 AM

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Responded on December 14, 2010 8:16 PM

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I think they should probably spread the cuts out evenly over all the expendiutres, i know they probably wont but thats the fairest thing to do in the end. usuaully in this case its stuff like health care and pensions that get most affected, when cuts need to be made by large corporations its usually the employees that suffer ive found!
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Responded on December 16, 2010 9:20 AM

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IMHO some people don't get it. They think the government can save the American dream by freezing tax expenditures. They only do this to show that they are doing more than printing money to fund all the bailouts. So, think again. They really need to look for another solution or just let the economy do its work without intervention! Rick @ www.24uurservice.net

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Responded on December 18, 2010 5:48 PM

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It doesn't seem to matter what the public outcry is on taxes they just do what they want anyway or am I missing something

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Responded on November 18, 2011 7:55 PM

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The government uses both tax expenditures and direct spending to support its policies. Direct spending is when the government takes taxpayer dollars and gives them to others to spend for a specific purpose. The government uses tax expenditures to accomplish the same goals as direct spending, but it transfers money by lowering taxes for an individual or company instead of giving them the money. Mozy Review  Norton Ghost Review
 

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